Discuss the Mars trilogy (1992-1996) and the companion volume The Martians (1999)
1992-1996 (1999) Mars trilogy
Comments
28 responses to “1992-1996 (1999) Mars trilogy”
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One of my favorite book series. I always refer to it when comparing other fantasy novels.
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I read this trilogy as a teenager, and it completely changed how I look at the world.
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Dear Kim Stanley Robinson,
you will likely not see this, seeing as your probably being bombarded by a million other fans, however, I have, in my utter excitement, forgotten such nonsense and written you anyway. Because, while reading Red Mars, which i´ve currently not yet finished, there suddendly you presented a topic I found extremely interesting to read on, that is to say, your so-called eco-economics. And while reading, I got evermore intriguided, which in the end resulted in me reading on it several times. Now, I got a thought which I wanted to share to you, and which I would like, that if you are ever to read, and oh my, even answer to my message, to know what you think of it!In your eco-economics, you mention the idea of measuring ones contribution to society according to ones output to society (which is measured by putting together what one gives, what one consumes times 100 to get a percentage point). In turn, you marked our dear loving capitalists as parasites and predators, consuming immensly while output remains at 0. I have found myself intriguided by exactly this, by the idea of measuring economic value by a sort of “real” value, and so I have come up with a question: You talk of nutrition and calories, however, my question is wether this should really be the real value we use. Because think of it! There are many supposed real values besides energy, like space, in the sense of room-intake. But there is something much more fundamental than that, I think.
Lets look at an example. Imagine two workers. The first in our example works 1 hour and spends the energy of working 10. Meanwhile, our second worker works for 10 hours, but only spends the energy of 1 hour. So, the question then poses itself, which work is more valuable? Or to be direct, what is more valuable, time, or energy? Thats the question I have posed myself, and that is the question I hope you to think about, just like I have do so and will continue to.
For practicality, lets call worker 1 The Industrial, and worker 2 The Artist.
If we only look at the work, it is quite obviously a dilemma, on wether the Artist or the Industrial deserve more compensation. Based on your model of eco-economics, the Industrial would most obviously earn more, as he has spent much more energy on his work. Yet, the Artist on his terms has contributed much more of his time to society, and in a way, has been robbed from such lifetime. Lifetime is as I see it a much more prescious ressource than energy. It is similar to space, only that even if we had only space, we could do nothing with it. Time however is a basic ressource than even enables us to us energy upon space, and in this way, should be more prescious to us as a ressource. It is simply the basis of everything we do.
Going back to the example, and trying to answer my question, we ought to take into account, that our Industrial, who now has kept 9 hours of his lifetime, well, what will he do with it? We could suppose that he is to use this time to rest and gather renewed energies. However, how much time is that, actually? Mathematically speaking it could in theory be all those 9 hours, as they would compensate for the 9 hours he practially worked energy-wise. However, it that were to be the case, that would make the work of The Industrial and The Artist equal. Yet, it is not. The reason for this is, that just because our first worker needs to rest for 9, doesn´t mean he wont rest longer, as humans like doing. So, then there exists an inequality between our two workers in how much time they can use to rest! Our Industrial will always have rested 9 hours more than our Artist, independently of the reason, and in the end, he will have received more time for his efforts for personal pleasure. This is just to note, that looking at the work by itself doesnt give a full picture.
And so what is my ultimate answer? I dont know, actually. Because, while time shows itself to be fundamentally more important, it has shown itself that in our example, that by taking in the account of rest, energy does change the fairness that time provides. In addition, this is still an example, and many scenarios bring with them many different circumstances. What I could potentially imagine then, in conclusion, could possibly be a merging together of time-economics and eco-economics, maybe even using space somehow, and then with this gobbled up mess make some grand and humane.
Thanks for reading & good evening,
an anonymous German student -
I have started reading your mars trilogy and I love it if there could be a modern alternative variation on the entire mars trilogy because of the aspect of human lifespan being extended by decades. It would be interesting if the characters and other humans outward appearances could gradually age until they look like variations of these images in amount of gradual outward appearance aging.
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Hi Kim,
I am an artist who lives and works in London, United Kingdom. My art practice focuses on moving image and sculpture.I am currently researching for a new work, which is titled Space Mongers. This is going to be a short film that will be filmed in Sutherland, Scotland. Where a partnership of UK space agency, Orbit and LockheedMartin are building the first European SpacePort, to launch small scale satellites from.
The film is exploring how we arrive to perceptions of place and our relations to its ecology. By looking into the past cultural histories and speculated futures of Space, Space Mongers, investigates how specific Private Corporate Bodies mediate our understanding of locations. By deconstructing these mediators, Space Mongers will examine the responsibility and power that mediation holds in altering collective relations. In doing, Space Mongers hopes to explore the ecological other of Space and considers how this newly tangible location should be processed and orientated within ecological thought.The film is going to be shot in one single take of 39 minutes – the length of time in the timeslip, so well articulated in your Mars Trilogy. The film is going to be set within this space and time.
I’m interested in exploring the conceptual context of the moment of the timeslip- for want of a better cliche- where time stands still. Within your literature, the timeslip appears to occupy the time and space as a wonderful abstract construct, I was wondering if you could share any insight into your thought on this time and what the TimeSlip means for you as a concept and construct.Thank you in advance for reading this email.
All my best,Ted Le Swer
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Hey,
this isnt an official site of KSR. He seems to have a facebook page where u can contact him.
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Hey everyone!
Just finished the Mars trilogy. Can your boy stop punctuating every chapter with a stereotype about Arabs?
As an arab myself, I’m tired of every white person (wherever they stands on the political spectrum) giving their unsollicited two cents about my people.
I’m equally irritated at both positive stereotypes (ahah the arabs seem like savages but once you get to know them you might be surprised) to negative ones (ahah the women staying in the kitchen ohlala…). It doesn’t produce any kind of relfexion or observation. It’s just sport for white people. I say that because for every arab or POC of color who intervenes on a forum to say what I just said there is a torrent of negative reactions from white ppl getting irritated at any mention of racism. So at the end of the day, by doing this, your boy just created a bone for racist dogs to chew at at the expense of arabs.
This, in itself, is a form of cultural imperialism. Please tell you boy to shut the F up. Thanks
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I just finished reading the Red Mars chapter “Homesick”. It is a powerful state of mind that I’m left with. An incredible rush of new insight leading to nothing short of the peace and tranquility of love. But then I’m just an old hippie with unfinished dreams. Thank you Kim Robinson.
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Hi.
I love The Martians and whole Mars trilogy.
I wonder if there’s any chance yours books get a portuguese edition?
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I am abundantly impressed with the level of research that is found in the Mars series. I am embarking on a research project with students in a School of Architecture. Rather than reinventing the wheel I was wondering if you could share some of your research resources that may be your favorites or may offer a concise account of the research that you engaged in
SMPeterson@SMPStudios.io -
I am totally gobsmacked after finishing KSR’s “Red Mars”. The detail and world building, the character building and the explanations about the (not geology) aerology and everything else in this book totally amazes me. KSR’s attention to detail is the best. If he is like this in real life, he is probably hard with which to live. Amazing author, amazing story. I look forward to “Green Mars” (when I can afford it in an e-book format). Thank you so very much, KSR. Wonderful!
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Hi,
I am a space enthusiast.
recently I was in a conference from AIAA (53 confreence Atlanta 10-12 July). in that conference, in some speech some one talk above the possibility to using the sand of Phobos and Deimos for aerobraking on Mars.
I am not an engineer then I don’t know if the idea works or is just poppycock. But if works, that means that Phobos and Deimos could
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Hi guys,
I am a space enthusiast. Recently I was in a conference from AIAA. in that conference, in some speech some one talk above the possibility to using the sand of Phobos and Deimos for aerobraking on Mars.
I am not an engineer then I don’t know if the idea works or is just poppycock. But if works, that means that Phobos and Deimos could
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Currently I am enjoying reading “Blue Mars” in Japanese. Now I saw two characters’ name which is Priska and Irishika. I am wondering if these two names show the different person. I think they are Swiss persons who is familiar with law and consitition.
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On pp. 282-283 of Red Mars, the author has character John Boone drive a rover from Bradbury Point to Acheron, some 5000 kilometers to the west. From the map of Mars at the front of the novel, we see that Acheron is at the far left, and Bradbury point is well right of center. But since the map shows the entire planet — i.e., all 360 degrees of Mars — that would mean it would actually be a shorter distance to drive if Boone went east to Acheron rather than west. Can anyone explain this apparent discrepancy?
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The Reds need to reconsider
They have not given enough thought to their position.
Everything is “natural” including humans traveling to the Mars and making a “nest” of it via terraforming. Many living things migrate; alter their surroundings, nest – in different ways. Computers and plastic are “natural.” It is not possible for something to be “un-natural.” We are such an arrogant species, that we feel that we have the ability to “create” matter that is assembled in some what that it is no longer “natural.” So, what the Greens want to do on Mars is quite “natural.”
Or, if I am not allowed that – then allow me this – any action towards Mars “changes it” including looking at it. So, if the Reds are so damned hell bent on leaving Mars in its pristine state, they not only should they not set one single foot or pod or wheel on it, but should not enter its orbit and should not even look at it from afar. You cannot be “partially” pregnant. You are either “changing Mars” or you are not. It is like the joke: A guy meets a woman in a bar and says, will you sleep with me if I pay you 1 million dollars, she says yes; then he says, how about if I pay you $10 – and she says, what do you think I am a prostitute, to which he replies, we have already established that, we are now only haggling over the price of the service. Changing Mars is changing Mars.
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I think this will be of interest to fans of the ‘Mars’ trilogy; the link is to part 3 of a blogpost on the ‘VolcanoCafe’ site about the martian volcanoes the first two parts presented as a fictional account
http://www.volcanocafe.org/the-science-behind-mars-2067-the-olympus-mons-expedition/
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Dear friends co-fans of KSR I have two questions about the story of Red Mars:
Why John Boon dies in the beginning?
And which is the exact year of the landing – 2027 according to 9 months flight from 21 Dec. 2026 or 2037 according to John Boon’s calculation of year M 10 – 2047 when the truck falls?
Thank you! -
Hi all! I read the Mars series back in college, and was impressed by the way that the technology in Red Mars seemed to be well-researched, based on the technology of the day.
I’d like to ask KSR — what would he change about that, given the events of the last fifteen years? The retirement of the shuttle program in particular and the unavailability of external tanks to build the [i]Ares[/i] would be an obvious place to start, as would the relative rise of China and India as spacefaring powers.
Does KSR still believe that it’s plausible for the first man on Mars to have been born in 1976?
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I remember a lot of power going to women in Blue Mars, mainly due to the Dorsa Brevia Group and Jackie. I don’t remember that necessarily “most” decisions went to women, however I would have to check.
KSR has mentioned woman empowerment (and widespread access to contraception) as perhaps the best way towards social justice and battling climate change, so this is something he talks about often. But apart from the Mars trilogy I don’t remember him writing about how it would come about in other works — it’s just there, naturally! There’s a lot about gender in 2312, and in the short story “Sexual Dimorphism” (The Martians); there’s some of it from the evolutionary psychology point of view in the “Science in the Capital” troligy too.
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Hi. I am a fan of Red, Green, & Blue Mars (and any other color he might put together too.)
I don’t have any of the Mars trilogy in hand, but I seem to remember a section where Robinson states that, by this time, most real political decisiveness [if not actual real power?] had transferred over into the hands of women, rather than the millennia old system dominated by male agendas. I could have this completely wrong, but if not, does the author go more into the where, how and why of this possible
future phenomenon (possibly quite desirable if the truth be known).
Perhaps in some essays?Thanks,
Gene Partlow
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Hi Gene,
You’re remembering correctly — there are definitely moments in the Mars trilogy where Robinson hints at a political and social evolution, where leadership gradually shifts in tone and balance, with women playing increasingly central roles. It’s subtle but deeply woven into the narrative, especially through characters like Nadia and Hiroko.
If you’re exploring ideas around social change or power shifts, this might be a useful reference:
<a href=”https://studyhelper.com/argumentative-essay-samples”>https://studyhelper.com/argumentative-essay-samples</a>Hope you find the passage again — would be great to revisit it in context!
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I love the Red Mars trilogy and was re-reading it, when I came upon something that Jackie said in Blue Mars: she mentions that if they allow individual towns and cultures too much autonomy, they could end up with a place that practices (gasp) female genital mutilation.
I’m wondering why KSR singled out female genital mutilation, and didn’t mention male genital mutilation? Non-consensual circumcision is practiced by Judaism, and earlier in Green Mars the character create the Dorsa Brevia document which unthinkingly enshrines the right to religious freedom, without any mention of how to protect young boys and girls from having their bodies mutilated.
If KSR were to write these books today, would he still have Jackie single out only *female* circumcision and make no mention of the plight of young boys in these same cultures?
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Knowing Jackie’s character, it seems natural for her to single out *female* body mutilation, most likely forced upon them by men, rather than bodily mutilation in general — I don’t think a character’s words have to be taken as KSR’s opinions always.
On religious freedom being enshrined in the Dorsa Brevia document, I’m guessing there must be an article or clause stating that self-determination over one self takes precedence over all else, including religious freedom. I would have to check the Dorsa Brevia and the Mars Constitution to make sure.
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There are a few. There’s the Mars Initiative: http://themarsinitiative.org/
The Planetary Society: http://www.planetary.org/
New Mars: http://www.newmars.com/
The Mars Society: http://www.marssociety.org/
And check out Space X’s Elon Musk too: http://www.academicearth.org/lectures/opportunities-in-space-mars-oasis/ -
Yes, the space elevator concept was not invented by Robinson and has been around for some time!
It was first used in fiction by Arthur C Clarke, in “The Fountains of Paradise”
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fountains_of_Paradise[/url]Check out this annual conference:
[url]http://spaceelevatorconference.org/default.aspx[/url]And yes, it’s extremely cool — and the obvious way forward!
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Not sure if you’re familiar with NASA’s World Wind; it’s similar to Google Earth. One of the users created an add-on that shows many of the features discussed in the Trilogy:
http://worldwindcentral.com/wiki/Add-on:Mars_landmarks_%28fictional%29
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I suggest setting up a shared set of markers for Google Mars that depict the sites from the Mars trilogy.
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